With telomerase, the initial experiments have been done with trying to make certain kinds of fragments of DNA into a kind of a bait, or a lure, to try and lure out telomerase to show us its existence. I’d done a little tiny bit of work with this and seen the tiniest hint, maybe there was something working, and Carol then took this on and said, “Okay, we’re really going to make this work.” But then the breakthrough was to not use fragments of DNA grown in bacteria, but to use very small — what are called oligonucleotides of DNA made in a chemical synthesizer where you can make more, and that is the thing that made a big difference. So you know, it was very hard going, and it wasn’t at all assured of success. So even though it sounds smooth in retrospect, there’s lots of things that didn’t work, and to this day you try things out, and some of them work and some of them don’t. There’s a lot of unpredictability in doing biology experiments, so you have to be able to put up with a lot of times things not appearing to work.