They got a couple of teams of torture guards and they had a special procedure. And the way it was done was to get a long iron bar and shackle your legs to it, and then the man on the back would start weaving ropes through your arms to bend them backwards. And then they — getting as much leverage as he could — what they’re doing is shutting off the blood circulation in your upper body. And then he would push, he would bend you double and stand on your back and he would pull from this angle, giving him better leverage, and then he would find—you know, it’s about over when you feel the heel of his foot in your—back of your head and he put your nose right on the cement and there you are. You’re encased in ropes. Your blood is not circulating. You’re in pain and you’re in claustrophobia. Now there’s only two ways to go. You can die or you can submit. I did that 15 times, and I don’t think anybody had that many before. I had about five within one real short period. But when we looked at the — we knew — now this took about 45 minutes to go through all this and get all that blood stopped. And we knew we had eight guys that died in the ropes. And then later when some books came out we know we had over a dozen, because these were guys that were put in those ropes even before they got into the prison. They were just in the ante way when they were taken in. So that was what we were living with.